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Stephen Cass: Hiya and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some massive issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply need to let you know that you may get the most recent protection from a few of Spectrum’s most essential beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for one in every of our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is turning into an more and more essential subject around the globe, and in the present day we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, concerning the European Union’s Sustronics program geared toward this very subject. I’d wish to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I mentioned, sustainable electronics is turning into an even bigger and greater subject, however it appears to be a type of issues that individuals discuss it greater than really doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics challenge going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics challenge is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 totally different European nations. And our fundamental subject is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one side however making an allowance for totally different alternatives that may come up from choice of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that may very well be used. And VTT’s function is, to start with, to be the technical supervisor of the challenge to make sure that the totally different companions work collectively and the totally different actions are interacting with one another so as to have a joint effort. However on prime of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the challenge.
Cass: Is it a case that you simply search for trade companions who then are available in and work with you? They give the impression of being round. They assume you’re a very good match throughout the program. Or are you actively looking for folks and going, “Oh, we predict we now have some expertise that may provide help to out right here”?
Hakola: Nicely, mainly, I feel they’re each methods. After all, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the trade, massive enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and we now have been already agreeing through the proposal part that VTT might supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that might assist with lowering their environmental footprint.
Cass: I suppose the query is, why would anyone be a part of this system, particularly if you happen to’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I feel it’s an important thought, however we frequently hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the motivation, if you’re anyone who’s making electronics, to turn into one in every of these companions?
Hakola: Nicely, to start with, within the EU, we now have this Inexperienced Deal. So the laws and the laws is creating right into a path the place the entire corporations within the EU should consider the sustainability features of the merchandise they’re creating and promoting. So so as to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU facet, the businesses must develop new methods to keep up or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to form of applied sciences which were in growth in these, after which they’ll attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that technique to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re primarily based in New York, in america, the place it’s fairly a unique regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability laws? What occurs if you happen to don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some folks simply pondering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a nice. It’s only a price of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Nicely, after all, EU is creating the laws on a regular basis, so there may come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that might give details about the environmental influence of the product. And that form of info can be out there even for shoppers. So really, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they might begin deciding on the merchandise which can be environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly sturdy technique to make corporations work in direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if shoppers begin deciding on the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit earlier about your entire form of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a few of the largest obstacles that at the moment exist in direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Nicely, there are a few issues which can be fairly dominant. So to start with, the uncooked supplies which can be used for making digital merchandise, they’re largely fossil-based, like totally different metals which can be wanted for making conductive constructions. And in addition, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often primarily based on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which can be important or uncommon or fairly beneficial. So it’s fairly a problem to search out supplies that might substitute the present supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we really discover some sustainable options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which can be used for making circuit boards, for instance, they devour numerous power and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, just isn’t excellent for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very power or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a manner that quite a lot of materials is wasted and processed a number of occasions. And naturally, the entire electronics trade is sort of advanced and fragmented trade. There are quite a lot of layers, and it’s actually troublesome to get all of them to work collectively and form of transparently switch knowledge and knowledge between the totally different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and possibly that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and speak just a little concerning the work that you simply’ve finished in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has targeted rather a lot on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which can be bio-based or renewable supplies. And properly, in Finland, the forest trade has sometimes been fairly sturdy. So after all, we now have studied learn how to use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally quite a lot of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– mainly, they appear and feel like plastics, however they’re from bio-based sources, so they’re form of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You mentioned compostable there. I’m just a little fearful as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic baggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so if you say that, I’m just a little involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived form of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very quick life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing expertise, so then after all we’re in a position to manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However if you happen to produce quite a lot of electronics that’s for single-use goal, then really you’re creating quite a lot of new digital waste. So you need to in some way deal with this situation with having single-use electronics, however then with the ability to in some way recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there’s, for instance, some diagnostic gadget the place you measure one thing, then in all probability there can be a single-use half on that gadget that might then in all probability be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after performing some diagnostic measurements, you alter just one piece of the gadget, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it may also be that the recycling course of is established, and it might be simply recyclable. However in that form of instances, you may take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak just a little bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very troublesome to waste. We’ve to separate out our digital waste and we now have to place it someplace else. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I generally take into consideration when all these things is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Nicely, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— to start with, you’ll want to set up the recycling course of, and there must be totally different assortment bins the place folks might dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Really, in my condominium the place I stay, there are one thing like seven totally different recycling bins the place I put the totally different kind of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that massive of a problem. However if you happen to assume recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets really should be designed in a manner that they’re higher for recycling. So we discuss round design, for instance. Already within the design part of the merchandise, you really take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a manner that it’s, for instance, modular, so you possibly can disintegrate the totally different elements simply and get better the supplies. So really, every part begins within the design part.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that generally it’s simpler for me to restore one thing that’s 40 years outdated. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the lifeless. However a product I purchase in the present day, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I usually should ship away for a particular package. Is a part of this design course of additionally these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design part. Design the gadgets in a manner that components could be changed in a while, and other people don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics corporations, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they’ll discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There may very well be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit about manufacturing processes and making these just a little bit extra sustainable. Are you able to broaden on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been creating for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it signifies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing expertise for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive technique. So we really add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away in a while after which attempt to determine what to do with that form of materials. In order that’s a possibility for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but in addition power consumption. We’ve carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less power throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there’s really already a possibility there. However in addition to this power situation, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already appropriate with the printing expertise. It’s really fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly straightforward as a result of that you may print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a form of simpler activity.
Cass: So are you able to speak just a little bit about a few of the form of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you concentrate on the Sustronics program– so there are literally quite a lot of growth for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the purpose is to develop the form of gadgets that individuals can really even use at residence to measure one thing from their saliva, or they’ll monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable gadget on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re creating are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you possibly can monitor how you’re doing when you find yourself exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart charge, after which the app would– the app you’ll have in your cell phone would then let you know primarily based on the measurement knowledge that, okay, you probably did properly in the present day or one thing else.
And one software space that VTT has been creating rather a lot gadgets already within the earlier analysis packages are these options for clever packaging. So if we speak concerning the packaging trade, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to be sure that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise will not be spoiling. So VTT has been creating electronics for that, like sensors hooked up to packages, digital sensors that may transmit info to cell phone. But when you concentrate on the packaging trade, the packages are recyclable. So then really we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those form of sensible tags, how we might name them, can be a very essential side to think about. And there, these new form of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a very essential function.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you assume it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that customers can form of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Nicely, really, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. After all, not in actually large volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s bought available in the market. However after all, we are able to’t print a cell phone with these form of applied sciences, at the very least not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say through the subsequent decade, there would definitely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers situated? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we are able to see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain when it comes to these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Nicely, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they don’t seem to be actually massive corporations but. They’re nonetheless on the early part, and they’re situated all around the globe. In all probability fairly lots of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we now have been investigating printed electronics rather a lot. However yeah, there is no such thing as a situation why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we predict, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we really need to– the EU needs to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to form of keep the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I feel within the EU, there can be in all probability fairly sturdy help sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or at the very least establishing new manufacturing models to Europe.
Cass: So if you happen to might wave a magic wand and remedy one drawback proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Nicely, in all probability I might make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets not too long ago, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there is no such thing as a restore possibility. So I’ve been pressured to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not wished to take action. So in all probability I might change the enterprise a bit that the restore would all the time be an possibility except you may have one thing that’s like 50 years outdated. Maybe that might be a problem. However even for a 5-year-old gadget, it might be good to have a restore possibility. So I suppose I might develop the form of design for the electronics that they actually could be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to speak just a little bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you mentioned it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose trade. So are you able to speak just a little bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper form of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has a protracted historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics tasks that had been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the function of the paper corporations in Finland was actually sturdy. So really, at the very least in Finland, how we began to analyze printed electronics, the initiative was involving numerous these forest trade corporations. And that’s how we additionally at VTT bought concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you concentrate on the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite options like biopolymers. So I suppose within the early stage, the paper trade was really in search of new enterprise alternatives. And so they thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being finished on a regular basis. In order that’s how I feel the factor began, at the very least in Finland.
Cass: So this can be a fascinating subject, which we might discuss all day, however I’m afraid we now have to depart it there. At the moment we had been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be a part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.
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